Possible problem when 430EX is slaved to 580EX II

[BillCMartin]

I have an older 430EX (not the 'II" version) which I'm slaving to my new 580EX II. Thanks to Syl's advice I'm experimenting with controlling all my flash settings from the rear screen on my EOS 550D (rebel T2i) instead of fiddling around with the less clear controls on the 580Ex II. Most of the time everything seems to work ok. Both flashes fire and I can usually get results that are at least adequate - and sometimes very good!

However, when I have the 580 in group A and 430 in group B, shooting with everything in manual, then try to change the power the 430 from the A and B controls on the camera's rear screen, I'm not convinced I'm really seeing the change in output I'm expecting from the 430.

Is this because the older 430 can't do that? Or is there something I'm doing wrong?

Just need to know if I need to fork out for another flash so it's properly compatible with this otherwise excellent system of controlling from the camera.

[Worldinaframe]

How much are you changing your settings? I took Syl's workshop in Orlando back in March and some advice he gave was to change settings, one at a time, dramatically. So if you have not enough light and you think you need a little bit more, bump it up 4 or 5 stops and see where it lands you. You'll be able to see the difference much better and then you can adjust for a little more or a little less depending on you you need. I had a 430 for about 7 months and I only used it once, for testing. I just sold it last week, but I seemed quite capable of doing what is needed.

[BillCMartin]

I'd love to go on one of Syl's workshops (if he comes to the UK!). I learned from Joe McNally's workshop to set the background exposure, then add flashes one at a time. He was so methodical in his workshop and this approach works very well, even for a relatively new strobist!

The 430 works fine in its ability to produce light. I can control it perfectly if I go to it during a shoot and change it on the flash. It's just that, having really got into controlling the 580 from my camera's rear screen it would be so convenient, and would speed up shoots, if I could do the same for the 430.

I take your/Syl's point though about changing one thing at a time, but doing it drastically. I'll try that in the next couple of days and let you know how it went. Thanks for taking the time to reply!

[BigPhilUK]

Bill I had what may be a similar problem with my 7D a while back. What I was doing wrong was selecting manual mode on the flash instead of ETTL thinking the flash had to be in manual mode before it could be controlled manually (via the cameras menu system). Once I'd changed it back to ETTL on the flash itself I then went into the manual mode in the cameras flash control menu system and all was great. If thats not your problem then I'm sorry I've no more ideas other than searching on the canon speedlight group discussions on Flickr, you could also try one of the Canon camera groups too including the 7D as there's lots of flash info there which could be relevant to you.
Cheers

[BillCMartin]

Phil, thanks for your thoughts. I've shied away from using ETTL on the flashes so far, because I just find it less controllable and it's not clear to me what effect any changes to the flashes has on the scene. That's definitely my problem rather than the flash's problem. I'm just beginning to feel confident with everything in manual and will tackle ETTL once I've clocked up a few more fully manual shots that I'm confident and happy with.

You can see some of my off-camera flash attempts so far, if you're interested, at http://www.flickr.com/photos/16191431@N07/
Many thanks

[BigPhilUK]

hi Bill,
I think you may have slightly misunderstood my reply to you.
To work your flash in manual, set it to ETTL (on the flash itself) as well as wireless mode. Then when you control via the menu on the back of the camera you select manual, not ETTL. I know it sounds stupid but that's what I was told when I had a similar problem on my 7D and it works, you can then dial in the power on the back of the camera from full to 1/128th (which is more than you get on the 430 menu which is a bonus).
Just had a look at your photos you have some nice work there. I agree manual is the way to go from a control point of view and if it's the way the Strobist does it then it's good enough for me. I only use ETTL if the subject is moving and I've no control i.e my dog, my girls or wife who get sick of posing after a couple of flashes!
Cheers,

[BillCMartin]

Oh!... Really?!! So I set both my flashes in ETTL but select manual from the Flash Control/external flash func. setting menu on the back of the camera.
I'll certainly going to give that a try later and let you know how I get on.

Thank you!